Framsburg (Hero site)

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2019 ARV should be posted here.
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Sam.Gamdschie
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Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by Sam.Gamdschie » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:01 pm

Regarding the automatic attacks the hero site of Framsburg reads as follows:
... It must normally be playable keyed to a Ruins & Lairs [-me_rl-], Shadow-hold [-me_sh-], single Wilderness [-me_wi-], or Shadow-land [-me_sl-].
As it was discussed if a Wild Fell Beast could be played as such AA, but the majority is not convinced of that.
So I want to issue the following erratum to this text as follows:
... It must normally be playable keyed to a Ruins & Lairs [-me_rl-], a Shadow-hold [-me_sh-], a single Wilderness [-me_wi-], or a single Shadow-land [-me_sl-].
Be side that, also a discussion is going on, what "normally" means for AAs: https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... 145&t=3658
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Shapeshifter
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by Shapeshifter » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:55 pm

I support this erratum (it is an erratum as I see it). Compare to the clarification on Elven Cloak:
Elven Cloak
Can cancel a strike keyed to one, two or more Wilderness.
Edit 2019-03-26: Rewrote my post because what I wrote here yesterday was partially nonsense.

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rezwits
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by rezwits » Sun May 12, 2019 6:04 am

You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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CDavis7M
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by CDavis7M » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Perhaps this card should receive a clarification conditioned upon the other vote. And any other affected cards. Simply so that a player trying to play Fell Beast at Framsburg can easily lookup any updated listing of CoE ruleing when browsing for Framsburg.

dirhaval
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by dirhaval » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:30 pm

Can Withered Hearth change the SIngle Wilderness symbol on Framsburg to double Wilderness or the Single Shadow-land to Double-Wilderness so to play Trolls from the Mountains? I would allow my opponent to do that with that creativity flowing from the icy streams of the Iron Mountains.

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Theo
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by Theo » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 am

Do you mean Withered Lands on the automatic attack Wilderness? No. There is no way to legally target that symbol, since it only occurs when the automatic attack is resolved.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by CDavis7M » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:19 pm

The simple answer: No, because Withered Lands targets Region Types and the [-me_wi-] symbol in the card text of Framsburg is not a Region Type itself, just a reference to Region Types on creatures (see MELE p.26 and the color insert).

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:22 pm

CDavis7M wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:19 pm
The simple answer: No, because Withered Lands targets Region Types and the [-me_wi-] symbol in the card text of Framsburg is not a Region Type itself, just a reference to Region Types on creatures (see MELE p.26 and the color insert).
Agreed. And very well put.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by dirhaval » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:26 pm

Good points. Withered Lands not Withered Hearth; reading that Dragon submission confused me. I was told not to leave a live dragon out of the plans if you live near one.

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CDavis7M
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Re: Framsburg (Hero site)

Post by CDavis7M » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:30 am

Shapeshifter wrote:I support this erratum (it is an erratum as I see it). Compare to the clarification on Elven Cloak:
Elven Cloak
Can cancel a strike keyed to one, two or more Wilderness.
Edit 2019-03-26: Rewrote my post because what I wrote here yesterday was partially nonsense.
Funny about Elven Cloak. I get why the statement about multiple symbols was made.

But for creatures, it seems like most (all?) of the "deep wilderness" creatures, and even Wild Fell Beast, actually include a separate limitation in the card text requiring multiple region type in the site path.

So, my thought is that you technically still key the creature to one region type, but that two symbols in the site path are also required.

Meaning, Elven Cloak could cancel Winged Cold Drake but Wild Fell Beast could not be an automatic attack at Framsburg (it cannot be played because 2 Shadow-lands in the site path are required").

Update: I think this was true in METW and METD, but then in MELE rules were added for keying to multiple region types. And the MELE double region type creatures (Giant Spiders, Non-Spider Giants, etc.) lost the site path requirement in their text.

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