The Great Hunt

[Alter Tuk]

Hi,
some questions about The Great Hunt:

Does a creature attack of which a manifestation is already in play (like a Nazgul)?

Does a creature attack that normally couldnt attack (like Beorning Skin changers)?

The Great Hunt
Alatar specific. Playable if you are Alatar and have at least 12 stage points. Your opponent reveals cards one at a time from his play deck or his discard pile (your choice). Any hazard creature revealed immediately attacks Alatar's company. This process stops when 5 creatures or all cards of the deck (or pile) have been revealed. Reshuffle play deck if used. Thereafter, your opponent discards face up. Whenever your opponent discards a creature during your turn, you may choose to have it attack Alatar's company instead. Cannot be duplicated.

Beorning Skin-Changers
Animals. Men. Bears. Two strikes. As a creature, playable only against minion companies. May also be keyed to Anduin Vales, Western Mirkwood, Wold & Foothills, and to sites in these regions. Alternatively, playable as a short-event against a moving hero company. Unless the company contains Beorn or an untapped warrior with prowess greater than 4, it must return to its site of origin.

[Konrad Klar]

I think that each revealed creature that attacks is de facto played. So it is restricted by rules on uniques.

Beorning Skin-Changers (or Olog Warlords) playability conditions are like other playability conditions e.g. keyability. So it should be treated in the same manner.
If it does not matter that Alatar's company is not at site where creature is normally playable, or is not moving through appropriate regions/region types, then similarly it does not matter whether Alatar's company is hero/non-hero.

[Alter Tuk]

I think that each revealed creature that attacks is de facto played. So it is restricted by rules on uniques.

Exactly thats the question. We played it in that certain situation, that the creature is NOT played. It is revealed and attacks, but its not played. But that might have been wrong though.

[Konrad Klar]

I think that it should be interpreted in the same way as Ride Against The Enemy is interpreted.
Such interpretation that creature/character is only revealed (but not played) makes obvious problems in both cases.

P.S.
Bonus questions:
- how creature may become ally (as effect of Ready To His Will) if it was not played?
- what happens to Alatar i revealed (but not played) Alatar The Hunter is eliminated?

[Alter Tuk]

- what happens to Alatar i revealed (but not played) Alatar The Hunter is eliminated?

Now that is a very good question, that might lead to the oppinion that a creature should be threated as played (with all playability requirements).

ergo: No creature can be hunted (played) of which a manifestation is in play, or which would not normally be playable.

I guess they still count against the 5 creature restriction? Supposing they fizzle.

[Konrad Klar]

It may be splitted to the two things.
1. Which creature may be played.
2. Which creature may be in play.

Possibility of being in play is not playability condition.

It is good visible in case of cards/effects that allows for playing character. Even if Thrall of The Voice allows for playing Imrahil, Imrahil cannot be in play if second of his copy is in play, or in the same company as Orcs and Trolls (outside Wizardhaven).

[Leon]

so there is a number of rules that the Great Hunt may or may not circumvent:

a) keyability to region/site

b) keyability to allignment

c) uniqueness

Clearly the card overrules a), but I see no reason why it would overrule b) and/or c).

[Konrad Klar]

so there is a number of rules that the Great Hunt may or may not circumvent:

a) keyability to region/site

b) keyability to allignment

c) uniqueness

Clearly the card overrules a), but I see no reason why it would overrule b) and/or c).

Essential difference between "a", "b" and "c".
Conditions"a" and "b" are stated by creature card's text. Condition "c" is stated by general rule.

[Bandobras Took]

There was a CoE ruling about Ride Against the Enemy, I think, that also has bearing here, but I'm at work so I can't find it.

Here it is:

On a related note, I'm overturning a previous ruling I made saying
that you may play a character with Ride Against the Enemy when another
manifestation of that character is in play. You now may not do so, as
Ride Against the Enemy will bring the character into play for the attack.

Ride Against the Enemy does it; I can't imagine Great Hunt will work any differently.

[Wacho]

This is from COE 38:

Now, I also encountered some questions (tGH = the Great Hunt):
What if tGH turns up a Beorning Skin Changers, which says: 'as a
creature, only playable against minion companies'?
a) It attacks the company like any other creature (with 2@1...)
b) It is put aside, not counting for the 5 creature total of tGH
c) It is put aside, but does count against the 5 creature total for tGH
because it is still a creature, even though it can't attack
*** a) above is correct.
--------
What if tGH turns up Adunaphel and I have her in play as a permanent event?
a) She attacks as normal, if defeated the in-play Adunaphel is
discarded; if not defeated that card remains in play
b) She cannot attack because uniqueness prevents it, so she is put
aside, not counting for the 5 creature total
c) Same as b), but does count for the 5 creature total
*** a) above is correct.
--------
Is tGH prevented by a Bane of the Ithil-stone?
*** Yes.
--------
Am I correct that I can play two copies of tGH in one turn? I think I
can, because after I play the first one, it is still my organisation
fase, so I can discard one stage card (i.e. I discard tGH), then I play
the second one. After all, the card is non-unique, it just 'can't be
duplicated'.
*** The aforementioned play is legal.
--------
Agents and Ahunt or At Home dragons are not at all affected by tGH, right?
*** Correct.

However, in COE 39 Chad overruled part of this:

In Rulings Digest #38, I ruled. Furthermore, I said the following:
> What if tGH turns up Adunaphel and I have her in play as a
> permanent event?
> a) She attacks as normal, if defeated the in-play Adunaphel is
> discarded; if not defeated that card remains in play
> b) She cannot attack because uniqueness prevents it, so she is put
> aside, not counting for the 5 creature total
> c) Same as b), but does count for the 5 creature total
>
> *** a) above is correct.
Travis Took inquired:
Why? If this is true then playing a Nazgûl as a Perm-event wouldn't stop
it from being played as a creature! Or how about the situation where tGH
pulls a Nazgûl that is in play as a Ringwraith, does it attack then and
if it gets killed the other guy loses his Ringer? Or even more ludicrous
would be Alatar declaring the Great Hunt only to reveal himself as the
first attack (in the form of Lord of the Hunt). IMO the only
hazard/perm-event/Character combo that should attack in this situation
is Mouth of Sauron/The Mouth, as The Mouth is removed from play, thereby
allowing Mouth of Sauron to attack. I would also say that such a
creature that is revealed but it does not attack should count towards
the 5 creature limit.
*** My bad. I now rule that The Great Hunt brings the affected
creatures into play, therefore uniqueness and other related
manifestation rules apply. Thus, if a creature is revealed that is
prevented from being in play, the creature does not attack and counts
toward the 5 creature total.

This should answer all of the above questions.