Yeah yeah bite meRingbearer wrote:Well, they didnt win much last year, so who would notice
III. GCCG Nations Cup 2009 (Talk)
Yes <walks around funny>Alter Tuk wrote:What happened? Are you going to be elected as minister of silly walks?Sauron wrote:Sadly I don't know if I can form a Team USA this year
edit: I'm an american we don't have ministers! I'd be President of Silly Walks!
You`re President of Silly Talks already. Of course you form a team!
And to all others: We have players here without a team! If you like to join, please sign in.
And to all others: We have players here without a team! If you like to join, please sign in.
[url=http://gccg.sourceforge.net/]Come to GCCG or die a lonely death.[/url]
I have a non thrash-talk proposal for you, guys:
What do you think about playing time-limited games this NatsCup?
I remember I played a game that lasted 3 and a half hours during our last NatsCup, which is too much for our brains, our Internet connection, our girlfriends' patience...
Seriously, I believe it'd nice to play time-limited games: I'm thinking about 2 hours maximum instead of standard 90 min., because of usual delays due to connection troubles, etc. Since both players have a log clock on GCCG, it'd be quite easy for them to manage starting and ending times. Of course, if someone gets kicked out for a long time, time wouldn't count until game continues.
Thoughts are welcome.
What do you think about playing time-limited games this NatsCup?
I remember I played a game that lasted 3 and a half hours during our last NatsCup, which is too much for our brains, our Internet connection, our girlfriends' patience...
Seriously, I believe it'd nice to play time-limited games: I'm thinking about 2 hours maximum instead of standard 90 min., because of usual delays due to connection troubles, etc. Since both players have a log clock on GCCG, it'd be quite easy for them to manage starting and ending times. Of course, if someone gets kicked out for a long time, time wouldn't count until game continues.
Thoughts are welcome.
Last edited by Balin on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Let them come! There is one dwarf yet in Moria that still draws breath!
Let them come! There is one dwarf yet in Moria that still draws breath!
A difficult question indeed. There was lot of talk about thing related to this in GCCG after the championships. There were suggestions of time-limits on player-turns, because there are some well known (and some not so well known) stallers in this game, who use 75% of the limited time. That kind of gives them a upper hand in these time-limited tournaments. So far there has been no real actions against stalling.
IMO 2 hours should be enough, but of course sometimes the games tend to be a bit lenghty.
IMO 2 hours should be enough, but of course sometimes the games tend to be a bit lenghty.
I personally despise the experienced players that take 15 minutes for each of their organization phases, 5 minutes to think what to discard, and a long etc. For nOObs, I can understand, but for experienced players...
It's completely unfair for the following reasons:
1 - One player consumes 80% of the time limit designed for both players to think about their games. In other words, one player consumes the other's player time.
2 - A game that ends abruptly on time limit breaks most of the schemes of a deck's construction. Especially for the decks that rely on combos, etc.
3 - A player can take advantage of stalling if the other player needs some turns to build his strategy. He also takes advantage of stalling because playing SO slow it's completely nerve-breaking for his opponent, and that can cause him make some mistakes. I know, it has happened to me several times.
4 - Finally, and most important, waiting for your opponent for 15 minutes each time he has to think about anything is a Negative Play Experience. And this is just a game after all, and it's about having fun. The last turn my opponent played against me on GCCG champs lasted 40 minutes, and I only played one or two hazards against him. I was completely bored, upset and angry about not having any fun at all and having to waste my time that way (and I don't have much time nowadays, and had to make great efforts to play in that tourney)
I really hope something is done about these stallers. If nothing is done, I will start calling judges here and there like a complete asshole, or if the game is unimportant (yesterday's game was only about who would get 2nd) I will directly concede and use my time in something better. I'm usually a patient person, but this time it's just gone too far.
It's completely unfair for the following reasons:
1 - One player consumes 80% of the time limit designed for both players to think about their games. In other words, one player consumes the other's player time.
2 - A game that ends abruptly on time limit breaks most of the schemes of a deck's construction. Especially for the decks that rely on combos, etc.
3 - A player can take advantage of stalling if the other player needs some turns to build his strategy. He also takes advantage of stalling because playing SO slow it's completely nerve-breaking for his opponent, and that can cause him make some mistakes. I know, it has happened to me several times.
4 - Finally, and most important, waiting for your opponent for 15 minutes each time he has to think about anything is a Negative Play Experience. And this is just a game after all, and it's about having fun. The last turn my opponent played against me on GCCG champs lasted 40 minutes, and I only played one or two hazards against him. I was completely bored, upset and angry about not having any fun at all and having to waste my time that way (and I don't have much time nowadays, and had to make great efforts to play in that tourney)
I really hope something is done about these stallers. If nothing is done, I will start calling judges here and there like a complete asshole, or if the game is unimportant (yesterday's game was only about who would get 2nd) I will directly concede and use my time in something better. I'm usually a patient person, but this time it's just gone too far.
Concede? Dude, you know that little X on the right top side of the GCCG window? Just wait for when it's your turn to act, then wait another 5-10 minutes (doing something else obviously), press the X, come back and say you were disconnected... And then say you have to go, and never finish that game!Manuel wrote:...or if the game is unimportant (yesterday's game was only about who would get 2nd) I will directly concede and use my time in something better.
Hahaha, typical miguel style!?
Serious: I think the discussion on this board is enough and people will recognise. I dont think we need an explicit ruling here. But note please that this is just one opinion. If a majority wants to play 2 hours we might do so. But there will be no judges around in this tourny.
Just handle it like gentlemen and tell your opponent gently to play faster if possible. I mean 40 minutes for 1 turn...? WTF!?
Serious: I think the discussion on this board is enough and people will recognise. I dont think we need an explicit ruling here. But note please that this is just one opinion. If a majority wants to play 2 hours we might do so. But there will be no judges around in this tourny.
Just handle it like gentlemen and tell your opponent gently to play faster if possible. I mean 40 minutes for 1 turn...? WTF!?
[url=http://gccg.sourceforge.net/]Come to GCCG or die a lonely death.[/url]
Hi guys,
what do you think about a fixing the number of rounds to 5 rounds max each player? Of course I you can call faster you can do that the normal way.
This does not solve direct the problem of players playing slow, but at least they have no advantage by playing slow like it might have happened in the past gccg worlds. I think it is hard to say if someone play slow by porpose or because he is not 100% familar with the handling. For me I can 100%ly say that I prefer playing with real cards because I get stressed by the handling and therefore play slower than in the real games and secondly play at least a bit bader because the handling (attaching, disattaching, revealing, hiding hand,...) stops me from always taking the best strategic deciscions.
Anyway a nations cup without any limit (time or rounds) like planned i will not like so much to play. Without a limit it is best to make a really strong hazard deck and than dunk, you have all time in the worlds unless you hold you opponent below 25 mp!!! You will manage with a good dunk deck to dunk 9 of 10 times I promise you!!! 
So I would like a 5 (may be 6 not sure) round limit. This seems to me the best for single individual games (unfortunaly not possible in tourmanents where differnet games have to stop at the same time
.
CU
Heiner
what do you think about a fixing the number of rounds to 5 rounds max each player? Of course I you can call faster you can do that the normal way.
This does not solve direct the problem of players playing slow, but at least they have no advantage by playing slow like it might have happened in the past gccg worlds. I think it is hard to say if someone play slow by porpose or because he is not 100% familar with the handling. For me I can 100%ly say that I prefer playing with real cards because I get stressed by the handling and therefore play slower than in the real games and secondly play at least a bit bader because the handling (attaching, disattaching, revealing, hiding hand,...) stops me from always taking the best strategic deciscions.
Anyway a nations cup without any limit (time or rounds) like planned i will not like so much to play. Without a limit it is best to make a really strong hazard deck and than dunk, you have all time in the worlds unless you hold you opponent below 25 mp!!! You will manage with a good dunk deck to dunk 9 of 10 times I promise you!!!
So I would like a 5 (may be 6 not sure) round limit. This seems to me the best for single individual games (unfortunaly not possible in tourmanents where differnet games have to stop at the same time
.CU
Heiner
If you can do this, Heiner, than please do so! Some nice 7 TP each round for Germany would be fine! 
I find time limit better than turn limit.
I find time limit better than turn limit.
[url=http://gccg.sourceforge.net/]Come to GCCG or die a lonely death.[/url]
Manuel is right about the "having fun"- part, at least from where i'm standing. The only 2 Gccg-champ tourneys i've had the pleasure to participate in, i've been a victim of a stalling player while having nothing but resource cards in my hand in his last turn. And i solemnly believe that this player did it because of tactics, not because of being slow or retarded.
Unless we have no time limit for turns or some REAL penalties for stalling players after they've been warned, this kind of behaviour just alienates players. I can honestly say that i'm nearly alienated already because of these either inconsiderate or tactical aspects of the game.
Btw, i think this is my 2nd post ever in here. This just shows how disappointed i am.
Unless we have no time limit for turns or some REAL penalties for stalling players after they've been warned, this kind of behaviour just alienates players. I can honestly say that i'm nearly alienated already because of these either inconsiderate or tactical aspects of the game.
Btw, i think this is my 2nd post ever in here. This just shows how disappointed i am.
"Why do I get to be Mr. Pink?" --Mr. Pink
Guys i am abit confused/afraid, that you are talking of me as well,
The one player you guys are talking about is pretty obvious. But since you talking about stallerS I really hope you are not talking about me. I played a lot of normal tournaments and never someone said to me I am playing slow, but it had been more the other way round in some final games in worlds in the past.
So if someone thinks that just let me know, there is no need for me to play online. I thought it would be good if the current champion would play the online worlds as well, so i started playing online some weeks ago.
P.S.: From my side I think that if someone thinks that I play online slow for porpose he needs brain washing, since the longer the game takes the better F Radi deck, giving you the girdle and some minshiefs for 10-12 mp at the end for sure, slow play is more or less the only problem for this generally strong deck. Therefore I played from my side all my games as fast as I could.
Comments appreciated!!!!
CU
Heiner
The one player you guys are talking about is pretty obvious. But since you talking about stallerS I really hope you are not talking about me. I played a lot of normal tournaments and never someone said to me I am playing slow, but it had been more the other way round in some final games in worlds in the past.
So if someone thinks that just let me know, there is no need for me to play online. I thought it would be good if the current champion would play the online worlds as well, so i started playing online some weeks ago.
P.S.: From my side I think that if someone thinks that I play online slow for porpose he needs brain washing, since the longer the game takes the better F Radi deck, giving you the girdle and some minshiefs for 10-12 mp at the end for sure, slow play is more or less the only problem for this generally strong deck. Therefore I played from my side all my games as fast as I could.
Comments appreciated!!!!
CU
Heiner
Rest assured, i'm trying to keep this in general areas, hence stallerS. Like you said in your tournament report, it wasn't such an important game we had. So i didn't even realize (or count) the time spent in our turns, it was all about funfunfun like it should be (but maybe i was a little annoyed about previous games and i apologize for that if it came out too tiring).Smaug wrote:Guys i am abit confused/afraid, that you are talking of me as well,
But since you talking about stallerS I really hope you are not talking about me.
p.s. previous post still valid
"Why do I get to be Mr. Pink?" --Mr. Pink