rebel talk, general influence, etc

[marcos]

I've been looking at old diggest and CRF about rebel-talk and its interaction with general influence the same phase it is played on a character and i found this:

"- A character removed from the control of direct influence outside
the organization phase does not need to be controlled by general
influence until that player's next organization phase.
- Changes to general influence take place immediately, with a minimum
of zero free general influence. "

arent this 2 rules a bit contradictory?

[Bandobras Took]

The first part refers to having to discard characters in order to not exceed GI. The second part refers to free GI.

Shouldn't this have been posted in the Rules Forum?

[marcos]

oops yes, it should... my mistake, any moderator please move to rules question...

so in resume, a character removed from DI with rebel talk doesnt count for general influence until next turn, the same as a follower character removed from DI because shut yer mouth is played on his controller rite?

[Bandobras Took]

A character immediately counts against GI if they are removed from DI, but they will not have to be discarded because of it until the next org phase(and then only if you cannot legally control them by the end of the phase).

[marcos]

A character immediately counts against GI if they are removed from DI, but they will not have to be discarded because of it until the next org phase(and then only if you cannot legally control them by the end of the phase).

umm isnt what you are saying completely the opposite to this rule?

"- A character removed from the control of direct influence outside
the organization phase does not need to be controlled by general
influence until that player's next organization phase.

[Bandobras Took]

Hey, I think you're right! For some reason, most of the people I've played have done the exact opposite, but this is backed up by CoE digests. Since the character does not need to be controlled, there is no change to GI to take place immediately.

[marcos]

maybe such characters doesnt need to be controlled by GI, and the changes to GI refers to cards like diminish and depart, so you've come up, the arkenstone, palm to palm, etc...

[Manuel]

so in resume, a character removed from DI with rebel talk doesnt count for general influence until next turn, the same as a follower character removed from DI because shut yer mouth is played on his controller rite?

Right Marcos. They don' t count for GI for purposes of cards like Call of Home, Muster Disperses, etc, until their next org. phase. Same stuff would apply if your opponent were trying to influence something away from you.

[Sauron]

so in resume, a character removed from DI with rebel talk doesnt count for general influence until next turn, the same as a follower character removed from DI because shut yer mouth is played on his controller rite?

Right Marcos. They don' t count for GI for purposes of cards like Call of Home, Muster Disperses, etc, until their next org. phase. Same stuff would apply if your opponent were trying to influence something away from you.

But if you can increase the mind of the character controlling the follower you can destroy their GI